[ 00:00:00 ]It’s not work, it’s fun. When you enjoy what you’re doing, it’s no more work. If then the train becomes our meeting room, our office for a day, then it’s a completely different offering. Pillow fight, for me, it’s a kind of a trust. What were they thinking? The stories behind Europe’s most promising clean mobility startups. Hello, my name is Dan Sobovitz, and in this new podcast, I’ll be talking to some very successful startup entrepreneurs, women and men who are disrupting mobility as we know it. They’re making it more sustainable and more inclusive – both for their passengers and for their employees. In this podcast, I won’t be asking them about their pitch decks or their growth rates or their shareholder models. I’m much more interested in what were they thinking.

[ 00:00:45 ] How did it feel to go the lonely road of an entrepreneur? Did people follow them easily or did they think they were crazy? Was it fun all along or mostly frustrating? And deep down, did they really believe they were going to make it this far? Previous episodes: In previous episodes, I spoke with founders of Vapaus from Finland, Wanda from Norway, RAILwAI from France, and Clearly from the UK. And this time I have in the studio with me the founders and leadership of Stellar, a startup from Luxembourg, ensuring internet connectivity of cars, buses, and trucks. So I have three co-founders with me. Instead of introducing you, I’d like to invite you to introduce yourselves because you’re based in Luxembourg, but you each come from somewhere else. Maybe we start with you, Damien.

[ 00:01:28 ] Hi, Dan. I’m Damien. I’m very happy to be here. I come from the countryside of the west of France, in a place where connectivity is already an issue. So even in your introduction, you’re already thinking about your pitch. It’s unbelievable. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Next to you, Anela, CCO and co-founder from Germany. You want to introduce yourself? Thank you, Dan. I’m Anela. And I spent my whole life in the automotive industry because I love fast cars. I love driving. What I love is my cars connected as my phone. And I love German clichés. What is it about Germans and cars and connectivity and speed? Yeah, it’s a kind of adrenaline, a kind of power, what we like. And I think, yes, I fulfill all the German clichés. And I’m proud to be a German.

[ 00:02:14 ] If I may add something, I think that Anela is really not a German cliché. She could be French in so many ways. Yeah, just before we started recording, she was saying she was French at heart. But we’ll get to that in a moment. But first, let’s introduce also your third co-founder, Hassan. So I’m Hassan Aouisse. I spent half of my life in France, but with roots in the south of Morocco in the Atlas Mountains. And then, of all places, you ended up in Luxembourg. The company has indeed developed in Luxembourg. But the idea that coming from Germany, from Morocco, from France, there are so many touch points, so many commonalities that we’ve been experiencing as kids. That’s also the common line that we have together. So indeed, this has happened to all of us.

[ 00:02:59 ] We’re driving across borderless Europe. Suddenly, we realize we changed countries because we lost our Internet connection. If you’re on the phone, you probably realize it’s faster even because your call gets disconnected. It takes a few more minutes until we start roaming and the phone catches a new connection. So, you have a solution for that. Yep, we need. We have a solution for that. We have a solution that is meant to turn the way we move into a way where we feel connected, where we feel useful, where we can still enjoy our digital life if we want to on the go. So, it’s true for cars. It’s true for trains. It’s true for buses, trucks. It’s really meant to help the society as a whole and humans as individuals to make sure that they will be still close to their friends and family, even if they have to take a long train between, say, Paris and Berlin.

[ 00:03:54 ] So it’s for cars. It’s for trains. It’s for basically any means of transport, ensuring connectivity. It’s for anything that has wheels. So, before we dive into your stories and not just that of the company, just to understand what is the added value here for climate, for environment, because you recently won the European Startup Prize for Mobility, which showcases the most promising startups, first and foremost, that can contribute to fighting climate change. So how does connectivity help us fight climate change? Yeah. So I think we are helping on different battlefronts. The first front is that we are helping people to adopt trains rather than to go on their cars or planes. With Hassan, most recently, we’ve been taking a 10-hour long train between Paris and Berlin, and the connectivity was just awful.

[ 00:04:43 ] So it wasn’t a way for us to be actually useful at work for that day. If then the train becomes our meeting room, our office, our office for a day, then it’s a completely different offering. It’s a completely different proposal. And then, obviously, we’ll be even more happy to go on the train next time. So that’s the first level: bringing people towards means that are slower than planes, to be clear, but that will be connected, so it’s actually not a waste of time, the way it is today. The second element is that we’re making sure that we’re tapping into each and every existing network, whether it be cellular, 3G, 4G, 5G, would it be Wi-Fi, or would it be satellite.

[ 00:05:27 ] So, we’re not asking anybody to build more infrastructure; let’s say, waste precious natural resources to build additional base stations for cellular networks, let’s say, or launch additional satellites. We can do marvels with what we have today. But the infrastructure you’re going to add to the car is not going to require more resources? Actually not, because it’s only a software. It’s only pure brain intelligence put into a software that is used to do that. It’s using all the existing equipment within the car. Okay, enough for the moment about Stellar. Let’s talk about you. How does a French man from southwest of France, a German lady and a Franco-Moroccan meet and start a business together? Where did the three of you meet actually? Yeah, so with Damien, we met 23 years ago.

[ 00:06:16 ] How many? 23? 23 years ago. We’re not even born. Yeah. Thank you for saying that. And it was on a very exciting project, not as exciting as what we do at Stellar, but still it was SkyBridge. It’s the ancestor of all the broadband Leo constellations, satellite constellations we hear about today. And Anela, we met her for Stellar. And the first day, it felt we knew each other for just as much. It’s the connection happened instantly. So you were the third, Daniela, to join the business? I was the third one. Yes. During this time, I was at Porsche and that was a link between us about the investment. And I remember very well on the first call together with Damien. We had the bad connectivity. That’s true. We couldn’t talk so much at the first time.

[ 00:07:12 ] Was he driving? No, I was not driving. I think it was a normal issue. And then I was driving to Paris. And we shared a car. We had so many common thoughts about the business, about the challenges in the space industry and in the automotive industry, and what we could put together to create a better and more sustainable way into new mobility. Because there are many, many other things than cars. So Hazan and Damien already started Stellar. You’re still working for Porsche. You were talking because they were looking for your investment and you decided to change camps and to jump on this. Actually, we created the company, and then NLR came at the creation of the company. But something I’d like to add is that for us it was really a chemistry that happened.

[ 00:08:01 ] So, it’s quite difficult to describe it. I’m a space engineer, so I’d like to have things that are really clear on paper. There is something that I could not express other than saying the chemistry was there from the get-go together, the three of us. She came to Paris once, and that was it. Okay, it was obvious. Chemistry from the start. You joined; you’re a co-founder. Speaking of chemistry, I hear you have some strange habits when you travel, the three of you. Do we? You look very innocent with the way you look at me now. But what does the term ‘pillow fight’ mean to you? It’s not only when we travel. It’s actually a way of being a Stellarian as we like to call ourselves. Stellarians. A Stellarian, absolutely. A real Stellarian.

[ 00:08:40 ] It’s a badge of honor, let me tell you. A real Stellarian, it’s a good pillow fighter. So it’s like Klingons, you have your own. So when you do a pillow fight, is that a Stellarian? Is that a sign of affection? When you throw a pillow at me, should I take it as a compliment? So, absolutely. For me, a pillow fight is really a way to actually argue with someone, but in a soft but playful way. Okay? And this is one of the things that happened, but they’re really weak signals. It’s small things. But then we realized it was something that was capturing really the essence of the way we are operating at Stellar. So Laurent, one of the Stellarians, threw a pillow one day. And then we started that pillow fight.

[ 00:09:23 ] In the office. And we had a lot of fun. In the office. In every office, in a showroom, in a recording room. And let me say, pillow fight for me, it’s a kind of a trust. So we trust each other. We have fun and we hit with a pillow, but nobody ever got hurt. Yeah, yeah, but at the same time, it’s a fight. We are arguing. We disagree. Okay, I just need to describe to the listeners that the three of you look totally normative. We spent dinner last night. These seemed like normative human beings. They go to work. They probably pay their taxes. They have families. But they do pillow fights as part of their work. So good chemistry. How long did it take between the first time you met until first you joined the business and then the first pillow fight?

[ 00:10:10 ] A few months. A few months? Yeah. Just to build that pillow fight atmosphere. Yeah. And now I think we’re extending now the reach of the fights. I mean, snowball fights; we just realized because we’re in Finland today and snowing, they’re really good as well. So, in terms of team exchange, let’s put the winter times and the snowball fights as well on our list. Jokes aside, at this point, I should also mention that the startups participating in this podcast are those who won this year’s edition of the European Startup Prize for Mobility which is Europe’s largest acceleration program for clean mobility startups. The Startup Prize is a private-public initiative, which brings together all major EU institutions, national authorities, philanthropies, and multinational companies who jointly scout, rank, and boost Europe’s most promising clean mobility startups.

[ 00:10:58 ] This year, the Startup Prize received over 700 applications from mobility startups from all across Europe who went through a rigorous selection process, both written and in front of a professional jury. The prize connects the winners with its partners for investment and partnerships; it presents them with VCs and CVCs and provides them with visibility across Europe. And we actually, you mentioned the snow, we are recording this episode in Helsinki as part of our tour, which brought us to Slush in Finland. To learn more about all the startups, visit startupprise.eu. We highly encourage any startup on mobility in Europe to participate in this event. I mean, this is good sense. This is wonderful what we’ve been enjoying and benefiting from as a company.

[ 00:11:45 ] Honestly, in terms of visibility, in terms of access to the ecosystem, would it be partners, investors, but also peers – you know, other founders. It’s remarkable. There was a good vibe in Helsinki. We were having fun; we are having fun. We are having fun as we speak, as we are recording this. No, but I’m interested, actually, what was the most significant thing you got out of winning the Startup Prize? You said visibility, but. And which of the partners were you in touch with? So we have Roland Berger helping us. Good news. What we will do, we will help the three winners. In fact, we are going to dedicate three directors of Roland Berger that are mobility experts. We also are talking to a number of companies I cannot disclose because of NDAs that we are signing with them.

[ 00:12:32 ]The story is the following. My father has been super active for Europe in the 50s. He organized a European festival in Stuttgart where the US over Europe gathered to celebrate peace, to celebrate Europe as a concept for the future. And so when I went on stage in Brussels for the final, and I sent a picture. Of the hemicycle thing, you know, I’m in Europe, dad, and I’m thinking about you. He was so proud.

[ 00:13:50 ] So just to put it in context, the final ceremony of this year’s edition, the fifth edition took place inside the European Parliament in Brussels. So yeah, it wasn’t an easy production to do an event inside the parliament, but it was very symbolic, and that’s the reason why we chose to do it inside the parliament. Because it does represent European values. First, it’s about startups in one European country doing business across borders. So going out of their comfort zone and scaling from one country to the next, but also about sustainability and about inclusion, which we consider to be European values. So once everybody gets on stage, the vice president… All right. So as everybody’s making their way to the stage, thank you. Jury members, evaluators. And you are asking what are the benefits?

[ 00:14:35 ] Obviously, there are benefits. But I can tell you, and I’m not the only one here. I’ve been also hearing from other founders from the top 10 that their families are also realizing how advanced the companies are, thanks to the USP. How many are you today, Stellarians? 10. And when was the moment when you realized, the three of you, at least, that you were onto something big? That this was actually going to work? That this was on the right track? So for me, it’s from the first five minutes of the call with Damien. And how do you do that, Damien? You talk to people and they just follow you? No, but I mean, with Hassan, we have a long-term relationship. We know each other and we trust each other for 23 years now.

[ 00:15:31 ] So in five minutes, there are already 23 years of trust. Okay, so you knew exactly, you already have telepathy. He spoke to you about this concept, you said, I’m in. And the concept itself, it speaks for itself. I mean, building a connectivity solution that will transform the automotive and the transport industry, you don’t need hours to understand when you are on something. It’s true, but we do know that statistics are against startups. And even if you have the most brilliant idea, the valley of death is there. Most startups will not make it. What gave you the confidence that this was going to work? Of course, the risk is always there. But you generally sense opportunity and risk. And how much also what you’re doing is aligned with your values, with your vision.

[ 00:16:21 ] The reason I went into space communications is because I believe that telecoms change people. And I saw it firsthand in some countries in Africa where we deployed satellite to do backhauling. And there’s the VisaBC system, the fact that we can do pretty much anything. And I’m very lucky in that we have a subtle reform of malware technology, but also to hope that, to the extent that they would be able to sell themselves. And we do know that this technology is a possibility. It doesn’t make sense. It’s personal. It doesn’t. It doesn’t make much sense. Aline, for you and Porsche, when you decided to leave, I presume, a comfortable, stable, safe job and jump on this boat, how did people around you react? Different reactions. Proud. Surprising. Nobody thought you were crazy?

[ 00:17:26 ] No, not really. They understand very well that something big, which is very creative, can develop together with us. And I felt a very proud moment when we tested our first software solution on the Hockenheimring, on a racetrack, with a race car, and to see it actually happened. And there was a second moment now. So we developed our global, our new product, our new retrofit product, and I could hold this in my hand. It’s real, it’s not a rendering. And I know it will work. The excitement of seeing it coming to life. So there was no hesitation. For you, am I doing the right thing? Am I going, is it going to fail? Is it totally crazy? Like it was, it sounds almost natural for you. Like you found the right technology.

[ 00:18:13 ] There was good chemistry. Okay, I move on. Like as easy as that. Yeah, let me say it’s my second startup. I know there are always risks in any company, in big companies and small companies and startups. And if you see a risk as a challenge, this gives you a new chance. Yeah, it’s a good way. Was it as simple for you as well, gentlemen? I mean, did you also? Did you also have to leave safe jobs in order to take that risk here? I had a very comfortable, very exciting job before. Also in telecoms and space. But Stellar was just another level of challenge, of excitement, of also potential impact. But then the risk becomes small. I mean, there’s no absolute risk. You compare it to the potential that comes with it.

[ 00:19:00 ] You have, at least you, Damien, you have a family. Yes, yes. And just, just to add on what Hassan said. So my rational mind when I had to make the choice was really clear. There is a clear technological solution that’s identified challenging, but also really rewarding. There is also a market that’s expressing its needs. And, you know, when I was talking to car manufacturers at that time, they were saying, ‘Look, Elon Musk is doing it again.’ Not with electric cars that we can do as well, but with connected cars, because he had this satellite installation called Starlink. So he can connect his Tesla cars with satellites. And the Chinese are doing the same. Actually, Geely has a constellation program called G-Space, and they want to use this satellite constellation only for the benefits of their group.

[ 00:19:52 ] So, basically, to have one step ahead of the competition. So, to me, it was really an eureka moment when I said, ‘Okay, if the market is able already to understand the value of what we have, what we could do using satellites, doing it hybrid, then we’re really onto something.’ I would say now the risk is behind us because we had some fantastic feedback. And one of them is from a CEO of one of the largest car manufacturers who tried firsthand our solution on board a car, moving in a rural area, while doing multi-party video call. And the video call went smoothly. That’s the next step for him. That’s the next step for connectivity on cars. So this is how you convince your potential clients and investors.

[ 00:20:39 ] You send them on a ride, and instead of sitting next to them, you’re just connecting on a call. And you’re just saying, ‘you know, if you don’t hear me, then we have a problem.’ But as long as maybe you can count throughout the call to 100. If you skip a number, then I’m fired. So that could be a way. I like the idea. It’s a bit boring. They might fall asleep as well. Maybe think of a story, not counting. But seriously, this is how they get convinced. They just go through a car. There’s this guy. They do the same ride that they’ve done a million times, that they always get disconnected. And now, aha, it works and they’re happy. So, the reality is, it’s the best argument to convince your customers and to convince your investors.

[ 00:21:16 ] That’s not just a PowerPoint slide. It’s a product. Not to be obsessed on the risk factor, but I have to tell you that in the previous episodes, I did spend time with the other entrepreneurs. And most of them said that they did have that anxiety and people around them telling them that it’s insane. And here, I put myself in this position that I’m one, you’re three. And I’m wondering if I’m crazy or the three of you are, because you make it sound so natural. Yeah, I just left my job at Porsche and I jumped on someone I’d met on the phone. There was good chemistry. He seemed nice. So I gave up my career and I said, ‘This needs to work.’ But for most of the people, it’s not that obvious.

[ 00:21:50 ] You’re right. Anela is a second co-founder. She had a startup beforehand. She knew what the risks were. And I believe that, at least for myself, but in the discussion we had together, Hassan, we, we, I think we were both clear that we had the right to fail and it was important to start with that mindset because coming from France, you always have to be perfect at school. You can always do better, right? So this failure thing brings a lot of French people to think that it’s better not to do it because you may risk to fail and then to be ashamed. So this is why thinking about, okay, we’ll try, we’ll, and we have really a good shot. Let’s just do it. Let’s, let’s try this is the right mindset to approach this huge risk amount.

[ 00:22:39 ] Yes, indeed. But I presume you’re privileged enough in your personal capacity to be able to take the risk. You had some kind of a buffer to know that if it fails, you will move on. I mean, you can always move on. You started relatively late in your lives. You were already comfortable. Absolutely. There are this aspects as well, but you know, I also have a family to take care of. I have to, to provide a roof and a food. What did your wife say? It’s an excellent question. It’s because before me. When I was working on that, I had a discussion with, uh, my wife, uh, my children, but also my parents and family. Let’s now put them in camps. Who was in favor, who was against, so, no, it honestly, it’s been a long discussion.

[ 00:23:18 ] He’s afraid. He’s afraid they would listen to the podcast. We just want you to know that my life will radically change. It’s been a comfortable life for some time. I’ve been a salaryman for 20 years, and then I’ve been a consultant for the new space, which is basically the startup in space, for some time. It’s been a fantastic balance between the money and the time, but now I will completely shift it. I will do it differently; you’ll see me probably less, but you’ll see me probably very excited and happy about the things that I’m really performing on. So it’s your first startup. Yes, okay. How did they react to this dramatic Hollywood speech? They cried. No, of course not. No, they were happy. I love you, daddy. Don’t go.

[ 00:23:58 ] I want to support you. No, no, no. I mean, they were cool with that. Yeah, yeah, they, they, because I was saying, you know, we have the right to fail. So maybe in six months I will come back and say, you know what? I have more time, but they say, ‘yeah, go for it.’ Daddy’s unemployed, but it’s actually good to, to have this ability to say I’m unemployed. And then what I, you know, I’m happy. I’m here with you and have already a gazillion number of ideas. I’d like to continue. And do you indeed work much more than you did before? Yeah. All three of you. I mean, you still have time for pillow fights, so it’s not work. It’s fun. When you enjoy what you’re doing, it’s no more.

[ 00:24:33 ] It’s more work. No, but time spent. Time spent, yeah. And time left for other things like family. I mean, there is no limited time resource. I want to talk about the first investors. So you present the idea to investors. You just spoke about potential clients that you showed it to them. It works, but we are now jumping forward. You already have something, you know, a product that works. But before the, before reaching that level of development, when you just had a concept and you go with that to investors, how do they react? And this is also really part of the DNA of Stata. We’ve been lucky enough to have very early on, super early, actually, a car manufacturer. We cannot disclose which car manufacturer, but there has been a car manufacturer.

[ 00:25:11 ] You keep teasing and you never give us the names. A big CEO, a big car manufacturer, and you never tell me who is who. There’s a reason why we cannot disclose this, obviously. It’s strategic to them. So it’s really something where we cannot go into details, and you know, publicly claim names. But in terms of this relationship, it’s been so helpful to Stellar because we had a team. We had an investor early on, but we also had an industrial partner that was able to convey to us all the pain points, all the challenges. And we’ve been working hand in hand. I mean, detecting – they’re talking literally every day. Today, we’re pushing the boundaries together with them.

[ 00:25:49 ] And now, because we’ve been so performative on the Hockenheim ring in 2022, all the car manufacturers are coming along saying, ‘I’m interested by what you’re doing.’ If you tell me that it was not only your family and your colleagues who supported you, but also investors and clients just came along the way, I’m starting to rub my eyes and say, ‘This must be too good to be true,’ because the stories I’ve been hearing from startups in the last episodes – for everybody, it was a struggle. And to you, it sounds like it’s just super easy. I mean, I think that you see here probably the mindset that we have at Stellar. We already, we obviously had the tough moments. We had the moments where we wanted to drop the towel, but what we keep now in mind are the positive.

[ 00:26:32 ] The positive elements, the fact that we’ve been supported by the families, that we had investors early on, that we’ve been able to gain additional customers. This is really, you know, it’s not focusing on the roadblocks. It’s focusing on the way. It wasn’t a super easy way, and it isn’t a super easy way. I think the challenge is: how do you see this? Do you see if it’s not easy, you will not go this way and you see it in a negative way? Then you struggle all days or you see, OK, there are some risks, but I can do a good risk management. There are some challenges. OK, I will, I will improve myself. I will improve what we can deliver from the team. If you see this in a positive way, then you remember on the positive things.

[ 00:27:26 ] And I think that’s, that’s, that’s the content now. And the reactions you’re getting from the clients and the investors are also positive? They were not always positive. They were not always positive. They were not always positive. They were not always, they were not always say, ‘Hurrah’, Stellar is there. Yeah, there are many, many questions. And sometimes there was an investor not from our area, they didn’t understand our concept. So, what’s the current challenge? What are you trying to achieve now? Are you already comfortable with funding and clients or are you still trying to get more? What was good is that the positive feedback on the project, I think also the team created the confidence, the capability to execute. That doesn’t mean it’s easy to get money on the bank or orders from customers.

[ 00:28:07 ] It’s a journey. The big challenge in that respect for investment is Stellar started in the period just post-COVID. So it was not the easiest period to, to go meet people. It’s also money is less easy to have. So, there is challenge. But, the good thing is the product makes sense. The market is there. And people believe in it. So, what’s the next challenge now? What are you trying to achieve? 2024 is going to focus on what? So, it’s the two things, of course: continuing to, to get the investment we need to, to accelerate and ramp up our, our development, continue on the product, and embarking customers. So it’s. It will continue to be an ongoing challenge in the development of our company. We’re still an early-stage startup and.

[ 00:29:02 ] A lot is still ahead of us, and we did major achievements so far; that gives us basically the fuel to continue pushing, and we know we are on the right direction. So investors, clients, clients – mainly OEMs or train companies. So, we have OEMs, which is let’s say the big market, the strategic type of customers; but we’re also pushing for shorter-term customers as we are launching our first product in May next year. So, we, we, we have OEMs, which is let’s say the big market, the strategic type of customers, but we’re also pushing for shorter-term customers as we are launching our first product in May next year. So that covers the buses, the camper vans, the trucks, and potentially fleets of cars. By the way, planes and boats? No.

[ 00:29:44 ] It’s much easier for planes and trains because they do not suffer from this moving environment that a vehicle goes through. Imagine, you know, going through Tlinky; you have actually canyons because of the buildings. So you cannot see the starlight in cities. But in the rural areas, we all know this: the cellular coverage is patchy at best. You also have trees. You have so many things that are changing when you’re driving a car. When you’re on a plane, you basically are below the clouds or above the clouds. That’s it. You have no blockage, the way you can face a blockage for a vehicle on the road. Same, same. And you have more place for the antennas, the batteries for the energy consumption, something like this. Everything is limited in a car.

[ 00:30:31 ] I’d like to add something on what you said, Anela, regarding what we want to do for 2024. Anela, I think you really highlighted well the mindset on which we’re really nurturing on. We’re often checking on each other about our mindset. When we have a team call, we’re really also opening the mic on things that we’d like to share regarding positive or negative things. So, this is really something that we are really putting a lot of emphasis on. We will grow in 2024. How do we make sure that this mindset also remains for our next 10 Stellararians? To me, it’s really a question. How do we make sure that we still are as happy as we are today? As you can tell, apparently. How can we make sure that this will happen for the 10 next ones within Stellar?

[ 00:31:17 ] It’s really something that— You mean the 10 employees or the next 10 that you’re going to hire? The next 10 or the next 100. And that’s a huge challenge. It’s really this change management. We really want to have this mindset. We want Stellar to remain and to actually grow. So, how do we do that? Do you ask your potential candidates if they’re happy? That’s interesting. You want to share what you’re doing for that? Yeah, we have a hiring process, and we have a structured interview. We worked a lot on this interview because, for us, it’s very important that we get the right specialists with the right knowledge and experience, but with trust. And with this, with this, with this positive mindset to see a risk as a challenge and a chance.

[ 00:32:06 ] And how do you do that? Is there some kind of a pillow fight exercise? Yeah, it’s a virtual pillow fight. Don’t scare your candidates too much on the first interview. Maybe keep it to the third round, telling them that you do pillow fights in the office. Good idea, by the way. The last round should be a pillow fight. Oh, no, I should not have said that. I should not have said that. I should not have said that to these people. Oh, obviously. There are no pillows in this studio. No, there are no. Okay, this studio has no pillows. I made sure in advance before you walked in that there are no pillows in this studio. How sad is that? What should I wish you for the next, for 2024, for the next two and a half years?

[ 00:32:42 ] What would be success? Oh, now for the ones I managed to make them pause and think. Usually they shoot right away. What would be success for Christmas ’24? What do you want to get? So with my Moroccan background, so at Stellar, we – we are more than just a startup or a company for me. We are a family, and a success of a family is to expand and to grow. That was if we had the German cliché before. Now we have the Moroccan cliché. So the family might grow. Nobody’s getting pregnant, I presume. But so it means more hiring, more clients, more funding – basically growth. Well, our babies are our product. So, yeah. So maybe next year it will walk by its own. Yes. So. But.

[ 00:33:29 ] When I answer as a German, I get a lot of gifts; and gifts could be a lot of customers, could be a lot of projects, or could be the right investors. So an investor is not just an investor who puts money in us, but also helps us in a strategic way, for example, opening up new challenges. Yeah, for me, success would be if a customer of ours comes back to us saying that thanks to what we did, thanks to the box – the global that we provided to them – their operations are different; they are making it happen; and certainly, they are efficient. Because they’re connected, they can do things differently, more efficiently, more sustainably. This is really the kind of thing I’m looking forward to having at the end of 2024.

[ 00:34:18 ] Advice, because for the three of you, leaving your comfortable jobs was not such a terrible dilemma. There was nobody pushing you not to jump on that wagon. You just did it. And advice to somebody, and I’m sorry for insisting on this risk element, and advice for someone who’s debating whether it’s the responsible thing to do for them, if it’s the appropriate, the right moment, and if they’re doing the right thing. The advice would be to keep your head out of water, not to get drawn into the process, and keep your eyes on the target. But keep the radars wide open and be flexible to adjust depending on how the target looks while you are getting closer to it. Maybe there are other targets, maybe the target is different, but not to get drawn in the process and forget the end goal.

[ 00:35:10 ] So my advice would be: create a good team culture. So many startups look about the investors, the products, the customers, timelines, and so many things. And sometimes they forget that they are a team, and that they have a hidden champion in the room. And that’s trust, That’s purpose, That’s a fun. And you cannot just create this culture. You have to give this culture water every day. And I think that’s our secret sauce. The advice I would have to give to anybody is sleep. Honestly, sleep as much as you can, anyway you can, because sleep is such a great way to recover. Because there will be times, there will be hard times. Yeah, we’re positive. We’re really trying to have this mindset.

[ 00:35:59 ] But of course, you know, the quantity of bad stuff and the frequency of bad stuff that happens to us is amazing compared to any corporation’s. Let’s be clear about that. It’s amazing. Still, if we sleep, if you sleep, you are able to think through, to let your mind be okay, to let your mind be at peace. And then, the following day in the morning, it’s much easier. What I like about this episode is that you always surprise me. I ask the question, I expect one thing and you always manage to surprise me with your answer. But it’s an excellent piece of advice to get more sleep. And be clear, we talk a lot about sleep. That’s why the pillows. We don’t say ‘don’t let the bed bugs bite.’ You always say, ‘have a good pillow fight’ and ‘sleep well.’ On that note, exactly. On the pillow. This was Anela Damian Hassan from Stellar. Thank you very much to the three of you. And congratulations again for winning the European Startup Prize for Mobility. What were they thinking? The stories behind Europe’s most promising clean mobility startups. Brought to you by the European Startup Prize for Mobility. You can find all episodes on your favorite podcast platform. I’m Dan Sobovitz. Stay connected, but drive carefully. See you next time.