[ 00:00:00 ]Brilliant role at HSBC, lots of prospects ahead of me, job security, still learning, could still grow, and I’m literally quitting for this crazy idea that may not go anywhere. What were they thinking? The stories behind Europe’s most promising clean mobility startups. Hello, my name is Dan Sobovitz, and in this new podcast, I’ll be talking to some very successful startup entrepreneurs, women and men who are disrupting mobility as we know it. They’re making it more sustainable and more inclusive, both for their passengers and for their employees. In this podcast, I won’t be asking them about their pitch decks or their growth rates or their shareholder models. I’m much more interested in what were they thinking? How did it feel to go the lonely road of an entrepreneur?

[ 00:00:45 ] Did people follow them easily, or did they think they were crazy? Was it fun all along or mostly frustrating? And deep down, did they really believe they were going to make it this far? This time, I have with me in the studio, Danielle Walsh. Hey, Danielle. Hi, nice to meet you. You’re the CEO of Clearly, a UK-based startup which is using AI to generate insight on trip-level emissions. So, Danielle, how did this passion for mobility ever start? Well, passion for transportation started as I was a child. My family actually had a motor racing team. Through the family, we had my uncle was a champion in Formula Ford. I would walk the track since I was a little girl with my father. I think I there saw a lot of people who were really passionate about mobility.

[ 00:01:25 ] I saw that you had technology was at the heart, of course, of motor racing. And seeing that you could change just like millimeters just to keep the car on the road because of the speed, but also the huge amount of fuel that we’re using then. I mean, the smell was almost addictive on a weekend. And just seeing that, obviously, in the impact that it had on the environment, and doing more research to see that this is 25% of emissions. How can we solve this? Everyone is impacted by transportation, whether you’re moving yourself around or our goods around. So I presume that the sensitivity to sustainability started a bit later. First, you found yourself surrounded by cars and drivers, and maybe testosterone and fuel.

[ 00:02:05 ] And then some point you start realizing there’s something wrong also with this industry, and sustainability needs to be a part of it. And then, fast forward, you find yourself working as Director for Technology Investment at HSBC Investment Banking, where you’re still looking at mobility. Yes, correct. I was very lucky in HSBC. I joined and had a very broad career. I had a very broad remit working globally with our biggest clients, multinational companies, working across transportation very broadly. So it could be from energy to the infrastructure to auto manufacturers themselves. And the role was first to front the bank around what we did on technology, and then have a two-way knowledge share with our customers. And there I saw that the disruption and the opportunity was not just technology, but it was also around the climate change.

[ 00:02:48 ] This is seven and a half years ago. So we then created a new team. It was called Future Cities and New Industries. And it was a dual reporting line. So, we first started out looking into our CDO to actually build new product offerings, and then also typical M&A investment banking to advise on a certain shifts. So everything goes very comfortably. You’re enjoying your high-end London career. But at some point, you have this crazy idea. You decided to jump off the wagon from this very comfortable life and start something rather risky. Well, I had done research for quite a long time on the space. My obsession, and it still is, is that we need one point zero.

[ 00:03:25 ]You jump off HSBC, you decide to create your own company, which will do what effectively, what I was seeing is that, um, data transparency is huge, the biggest blocker, because we have huge amounts of innovation from batteries to new forms of transportation, funding mechanisms, infrastructure, but the the lack of data transparency means that we can’t quantify or identify how to do it and when to do it is it ownership?

[ 00:04:05 ]So what you have is, if I’m an auto manufacturer, I can see where the car is moving but I can’t see what’s inside the car. If I am an energy provider, I can see how my charging infrastructure is working and my energy supply but I can’t see the demand. So it’s the fact that you have these data silos and they’re not speaking to each other, and that’s even within divisions. If I’m an auto manufacturer, I can’t see what the other Manufacturer is doing so, you set up clearly, which is going to give us clearly some clarity on data. I presume, how does that solve the this failure?

[ 00:04:39 ] So it’s both a business strategy and also a technology the technology is that it’s hardware agnostic, so we can see across different sensors and different databases and actually blend them together enhance them to give that transparency. And the way we get access to that data is that we’re providing a solution now, and we’re providing a solution now, which is to get fleet operators and owners to be compliant, so with that. That’s how you’re accessing all the data, and then you Use the blended data, anonymized data, to then enhance other datasets where you don’t have access fully. So clearly, basically, it sees the failure of not having the data crunched into one place and allowing us to draw conclusions as a society on how to make our cities greener.

[ 00:05:15 ] Exactly, it’s across the supply chain. So if I am a tire company, I will have the data that my tire is going to reduce emissions by X, but if I’m an auto manufacturer, I can’t see what’s going to happen because you can’t then quantify that with a broader picture. It’s hard then for the aperture of the tire to see whether actually they should go ahead with the bigger price or not it’s exactly the same in terms of if i have an x budget to electrify my fleet where do i start first so there you’re having to then see if i’m having one zone uh that needs to be electrified how do i even do it so it’s all around data transparency so one day you go to your boss at hsbc and you say hello boss what’s the name of the boss uh he was at the flea palmery

[ 00:05:53 ] philippe yes hey philippe we have to talk i decided to take some time off i’m actually leaving and the reason i’m leaving is because i’m starting a new company what does he say he it was a hard one for him because he was an innovator and he always encouraged innovation Across the bank, and also myself, to keep on innovating. Was he surprised or he know you well enough to know it was burning inside of you? He knew that it would come; he didn’t think it was going to come that quickly, and it was in the middle of COVID. Did COVID have a part in your decision? No, it really was an inflection point when I knew that regulation was also increasing and the technology was ready.

[ 00:06:27 ] Um, so at that point, I just knew I had to go. It was a tricky time because, obviously, during COVID, it was probably very risky in its own right. It was easier because you weren’t in the rush of being in an office, uh, being on a plane, or being in a very kind of formal environment everyone was at home so from one day you are working for a very large organization and the next day you’re working for yourself but you’re alone anyway yeah so in the same room exactly so in that regard it was easier but in the other regard it was a bigger risk because of the the times it were so he knew i think he was a little bit shocked it was coming then

[ 00:07:03 ] um encouraged me to maybe to think about it do a bit more work so given that it’s covid and everything is remote you couldn’t look him in the eye i suppose you just sent him an email with your resignation letter what about people around you how did they React when you told them that you’re now trying something completely new, people thought that was a bit crazy. Uh, my mom was very worried but she… yes, she was afraid. She was very afraid of the SARS thing because she was always backing whatever I do. But yeah, she was worried. Um, she then thought that I was you know uh enjoying life for about a year and a half so I’d get calls kind of every week going ‘Hello darling, what are you up to today?’ Well, mom, I’m running a business.

[ 00:07:36 ] Oh, that’s nice. I don’t know why but for me every time my parents try to stop me from doing something I get even more eager to prove them wrong. Now I have Yet another incentive to succeed, so yes. Uh, no people are a bit shocked. Uh, actually my uncle thought I was very crazy and um irresponsible, which does sound on paper, it does sound I mean I had a fantastic role um, yeah brilliant role at HSBC, lots of prospects ahead of me um, job security uh, still learning uh, could still grow and I’m literally quitting for this crazy idea that may not go anywhere. Okay so HSBC kind of understands. Your immediate family is a bit concerned but then you take it to the next level of what presenting it to investors uh, the next from there.

[ 00:08:23 ] Um, yes, I got a small amount of funding and actually we were very quick to engage with uh, with customers um, so we we did land a big customer pretty early uh. And we got how did that happen? I’d been working in space for a very long time, so I was actually advising on exactly what I’m doing now for the past seven years. So, the access was definitely there and it was like, ‘I’m back,’ but I now have as opposed to advising, you I have a solution, okay. And so, in terms of risk, I mean that was quite comfortable, no, I mean kind of cushioned. So, you have an idea, you don’t even have the investors yet and you already have clients. I mean, in this podcast series, not everybody had such a journey, sure.

[ 00:09:00 ] But I also Um, I got a wake-up call. I thought that, actually, the risk wouldn’t be there. Um, I actually also thought, you know, why are startups raising five million? You rise 20, you can merge some companies together, do an exit typical kind of investment banking uh thought process. It seemed easier than it was. Seemed a lot easier. Yes, I got a big wake-up call where yes, we had a lot of customers but we couldn’t pay them. It was testing mode. I didn’t have a product. My idea back then was very similar to now, but there was the product aspect was definitely not there. So, we got access to a lot of data realized that actually, that data was not relevant.

[ 00:09:33 ] It was cameras that were looking outside the vehicle versus the surroundings that we needed and, uh, and then you know, grew. Grew from learnings, and grew what now is a product, but back then, it was still a concept. So, after the first client, I went to still investors or we did um it’s we got some funding uh from very good investors and and that allowed us then to build an early version of the product. And then from there, we took on uh well, the largest retailer in the world. Um, they were different in that normally a big multinational company will give you a very small segment of data; they just said, ‘Take on everything.’ So, we tracked every Vehicle across North America, so how does that work?

[ 00:10:13 ] You’re not buying their data; they’re basically your clients. They give you their data and you’re utilizing it and crunching it for them. Yes, the go-to market product is effectively where companies now if you are owning or managing a fleet, you actually need the data transparency to first state what’s your scope three so your supply chain emissions and also ensure that you are not breaking any regulations; it could be low emission zones, it could be um a breach in terms of energy consumption. So to get that, internal teams are doing is spending weeks of manually compiling data. data together and they still know that that data is wrong so we come in and we’re the ones where they can send all their data to us both their own and third-party data we’ll then blend the data and we’ll then send the data to

[ 00:10:49 ] them we’ll send it we enhance it with the data we have that could be traffic controls weather controls overlay the regulation and that’s where you then can give the trip level emission data required okay but the clients and the investors are not the same ones i mean you’re not you don’t get invested by your own clients they they’re separate i mean you can uh typically you do that a bit later stage so we took Uh, money from uh, investors in the space, in fact, they are two mobility funds. Um, one is a technology fund and the other one is a climate um, mobility funds just knew from early on, uh, the, the pain point we were solving from the transportation side which was fantastic, uh, so the questions went very granular very quickly and they could guide us as well and their limited partners, their investors are also the the customers of ours, so in a way that you can say they’re the same.

[ 00:11:32 ] I guess what I’m trying to get at is that your professional environment understood your family thought it was crazy, but the next steps don’t sound like it. Was that difficult for you to convince people that you were onto something? Clients from your previous network and environment trusted you. Investors came along, given that you’re not describing it as a very uh steep hill. It sounds like it was more or less okay; you had a concept, you developed it, and they came on board. So where was the challenge? There are challenges all the time. You mess up all the time – I mean, you really do. This is an environment where we’re building AI technology. You do need capital to back this, and in this environment, what investors need is proof points – uh, fantastic!

[ 00:12:10 ] You’ve signed you know global and annual contracts. But are they recurring? Um, do you have that famous array of revenue coming in that I can see now? This is secure, and that’s not the case right now. It’s normal in this environment, um, and I think also it’s around uh people can trust you, but are you providing a product that is uh EBC to implement? Are you solving their need, and that was actually one of the biggest mistakes that we made was with this first customer. They wanted a lot, and we wanted to provide a lot. Which, the customer is always right, but if you want to create a product, you’ve got to know where to say no, to say yes, or maybe later.

[ 00:12:43 ] So, that discipline also and knowing What’s the product, knowing where to say no to and where to say yes to that’s what was the difficult roadmap. But I presume that your advantage compared to other entrepreneurs that at least you knew the banking and investors’ industry quite well from your previous uh role because you basically changed seats around the table from an investor you were before to an entrepreneur, you were. You were now so, did you better understand the mindset of investors because you you were among them earlier? I did, but I was not an operator. And so, and you always think that you know more before you do this as a first-time founder, I mean I think that you go in very with a naive mindset.

[ 00:13:19 ] Do you find that around you, that uh, it’s a common trait of first-time entrepreneurs that they’re overconfident? Yes, otherwise you would never jump into the water, maybe. I think so, I think that naivety actually is very good uh because if you knew how bumpy it was going to be, I I think you would take a second. Please don’t say that, because I want this podcast to inspire people to do what you did and follow your trail. Don’t listen to what you just said, do it! I would say though, listen this is the hardest thing that I’ve ever done, and everyone would tell you that the same, especially As an entrepreneur, but it’s the most invigorating thing as well. And, and it’s the small things there’s the small wins.

[ 00:13:54 ] You have to take those small wins. The small wins could be that a client comes back and says, ‘Wow, like this is awesome.’ That’s a huge win. Or you uh persuade a fantastic talent to come and join the company, and you see them grow and you see them do well that’s a huge win. And why is it the hardest thing you’ve ever done? It’s the hardest thing because you strike me as someone who’s had different you know, you’re ambitious; you must have had significant challenges before. Why is this more difficult than anything? You had done before, you always make it. You’re always naked if you’re in a big corporation. You can hide so if you do things that are wrong, you can just hide behind the the big corporation naked to whom?

[ 00:14:27 ]Them to challenge you, and yeah, for sure, for sure, it’s a it’s a culture where yes, uh, I need to be called out on, and they are the they’re building it right, uh, I’m basically just conducting an orchestra, and my role is to make sure they have the right equipment, they’re speaking to others correctly, sometimes it’s a little bit loud in one corner, they maybe need to give someone else space to also grow, and that’s how you build a product, right?

[ 00:15:10 ] So we invited you to be part of this podcast because you just won the European Starter Prize for Mobility, which is Europe’s largest acceleration program for mobility start-ups. Mobility start-up price, for mobility start-up and one of the most prestigious labels in this field. So once everybody gets on stage, the Vice President is all right. So as everybody’s making their way to the stage, thank you jury members, evaluators. At this point, I should also mention that all the startups participating in this podcast are those who won this year’s edition of the European Start-up Prize for Mobility, which is Europe’s largest acceleration program for clean mobility start-ups. The Start-up Prize is a private-public initiative, which brings together all major EU institutions, national authorities, philanthropies And multinational companies who jointly scout, rank, and boost Europe’s most promising clean mobility startups this year.

[ 00:15:56 ] The prize received over 700 applications from all across Europe, and you went through a very rigorous selection process, both written in front of a professional jury to have won among the top 10. You’re now part of the acceleration program which brought you here. We’re recording this conversation in Helsinki as part of the winners’ European tour so far we’ve just visited Slush, but also part of your prize is being in touch with the prize partners for investment and business partnerships presentation to VCs. And, and, CVCs. So, there’s lots happening for you with the other nine startups all across Europe. I should mention to the listeners that if you want to learn about all the other startups, you can visit starterprize.eu. Have a wonderful evening and see you all at the sixth edition of the European Starter Prize for Mobility.

[ 00:16:43 ] But are you safe and sound now? Can you say that you have successfully crossed the notorious valley of death when it came to funding? At least, no, no, we can’t. Um, we’re in a position now where for some, say it’s a nice position to be in, actually it’s a little bit risky as well. Is that we have demand for the product but We now need the capital to actually fully fulfill those contracts, um, it’s a very tough environment I think everyone knows that, and so, uh, people are being very cautious. We um, no, we’re actually live raising uh, and our current investors are rightly so being rather selective, and who we take to the cap table, but, no, we’re definitely not there yet. I don’t think you’re ever really there, actually.

[ 00:17:24 ] I think you always are going to have a good thing or a bad thing. It’s a good thing you’re always living, I mean, if you’re there then uh, you’re too comfortable. I don’t think as a, I don’t actually even friends who have exited uh and are IPO’d, you’re still Nervous in the belly, uh. If you’re not, I think you’re not pushing hard enough. But do you still congratulate yourself? Oh, I think it’s a healthy thing to do. Yes, and I really try to get the team to do it and take a step back and say, ‘Okay, I didn’t ask about the team; ask about yourself.’ Probably not, no, I think it’s… I’m still too nervous. If you were to congratulate yourself for what you’ve accomplished with the team, clearly, what would it be?

[ 00:18:02 ] For the team, the team persuading each and every one of the people to join the team… was huge. I’m really proud of every one of them. No, it’s interesting because it’s something that does come up with different Entrepreneurs that I interviewed here, they do talk about the challenges and the frustrations and the loneliness and difficulty. But they’re also because they recruited them, you know, they selected those people. I mean it sounds so cliché, but it’s it’s some kind of a new unit for them. I wouldn’t call it a family, I think it’s… um, you have to be careful in my view to call it that, because you know work-life balance. Um, we’re definitely a very strong unit, I think. It’s more that… think about it, you’ve built something out of nothing, right?

[ 00:18:40 ]So, rewarding.

[ 00:19:14 ]Uh, an example the other day was… um, we have a relatively junior data scientist, he’s… um, but he’s very talented. And I had a feeling you were going to say that – I don’t know the person, none of it’s uh when I hired him at the startup I thought: okay, this person’s going to be a bit difficult or a complete and… um, he’s a complete superstar, and we we were working on Uh, it was a board member of a very large transportation company and I said, ‘Hey, um, you’re presenting next week because it’s it’s it’s your thing, right?’ And the meeting was slightly slower, but he nailed it and he did so well.

[ 00:20:06 ] And I was like, ‘You owned that!’ So then now the success of this customer is going to be on him, and I’m when we’re hiring now, it’s not that I’m going to be hiring; he’s involved, and it’s going to be his team in his division if he has new ideas. Come, do you drive the the data aspect of in terms of certain transportation data in X area? You’re the expert, right? Come pitch so it’s it’s empowering in that sense, I. Think also, um, we have a policy in the company where everyone gets share options, so we are really, it’s our thing. We’re building this is that exceptional in your environment, um, I think that every company is run differently. Some do uh have share options for everyone; some it’s only for the management team.

[ 00:20:46 ] You even have very large companies that are doing it, so everyone really feels like they’re doing it as a part of it. But I i think it’s important, I really do, is that part of the values of the company you’re talking about empowerment, you’re talking about transparency. If you’re saying that you’re challenged By your own employees, yes, what else do you try to convey? I mean, we speak a lot about inclusion. Is that something that is… it’s really important on on all aspects. Um, we’re very lucky; we have um, uh, we do have a good mix in terms of… we want in terms of gender, you mean. On gender, we do have a good mix. Uh, we’re always trying to to improve and we’re obviously always trying to hire the best talent.

[ 00:21:22 ] Uh, but that mix of of talent is actually fantastic when you do have that uh, gender equality in the room. And that it also includes a data scientist, um, that’s actually now coming to the table. There are less women to hire, I mean… there are more and more now there really are um and it obviously all starts from education and i think that’s that education part now in terms of the younger talent you are seeing a bit more of a a balance as such at the risk of sounding sexist and i do consider myself a feminist is a business run by a woman run differently is there more empathy is there more i don’t

[ 00:21:54 ] know or am i just or are these just cliches okay yes i guess there is yes i think you can run a business where you still can have a honestly i don’t know it is a hard question because i don’t want to speak also from that a man would also not be empathetic i think it’s it’s a characteristic thing You can either be. I think in the, in the technology startup world sometimes it’s uh renowned to be quite and a bit cutthroat. I don’t think you need to manage a business like that to be successful. Um, I think it’s more around encouragement. And of course, you can feel when someone is not passionate about what they’re doing. Okay, then help them. Let me understand, let me understand what’s going on.

[ 00:22:33 ] Is this the right role for you? Do you have the right tools? You’ve been listened to or is there something at home, right? Not having to go into that personal aspect but just to be aware of it. I think that’s an area where it’s another form of Empowerment, and it’s another form of productivity. And you know what? Today, wish you or, clearly obviously, you’re fundraising, but what other milestones or KPIs or objectives do you have now lying ahead of you? Gosh, next year’s gonna be really exciting! Um, it really is because we’ve got to a point now where so, we’re at the end of ’23. We have now got our fourth uh customer, but we obviously deal with very large customers, the different customers themselves, and uh, the exciting thing is that they keep telling us about their problems which is our problem, and it is the product which is so exciting!

[ 00:23:14 ] And next year, when we close This funding round, we, uh, we have a lot of money, a very rich pipeline, and it’s exciting. What we’re going to be bringing on there’s going to be big partnerships, uh, big customers coming, and the team right to grow this team and to see this uh build up. I think 2024 is going to be really exciting, yeah, that’s happening, it seems anyway. What should I wish you on top? I think it probably is a bit better investment environment would be very helpful. Are you still in touch with Philip? Philip, Philip, very much from HSBC, very much so he doesn’t know that he’s now starting this episode, but what does he think about where he stands, uh, right? Now, does he understand my decision back then?

[ 00:23:52 ] Does it make sense to him more than it did back then? Yes, he’s always been supportive. Um, in fact, you know I’m going to ask that question as well. What does your mom think now? She was skeptical, not because it’s you, not because she doesn’t trust you, but because she’s a mother and her job is to worry. But does she see you now? Is she reassured now? No, not yet. Actually, at the same time, you said that you will never be reassured yourself. You cannot expect her what you’re not expecting from yourself. I also suspect, without being your shrink, this is maybe the concept for the next podcast that you Don’t congratulate yourself that much, maybe that makes it more difficult for your mother.

[ 00:24:29 ] And I’m way out of my zone here to congratulate you, but um, maybe I’ll ask it differently. With Danielle of 2013 be proud of Danielle of 2023 professionally. I’m not digging into your personal life; you just said you know work-life balance. But do you think that if I described to you where you would be sitting right now? Just won the European Startup Prize for mobility with your fairly newly established startup, you’re now in Helsinki because you’re presenting at Slush. You are considered one of the most promising startups in clean Mobility across Europe, yes, you’re still struggling like the life of a startup. Do you think that if I describe that to you when you’re sitting in one some high, uh, skyscraper, uh, building office in London, telling you this is what your life is going to look like in 2023, well, how would you have reacted?

[ 00:25:20 ] Yeah, put it in a different light. Um, Danielle is doing uh what makes her happy every single day, and I think that everyone should aspire to have that. Um, yeah, so I guess, amen. This was what were they thinking? The stories behind Europe’s most promising clean mobility startups. You can find all episodes on our podcast platform. I’m Dan. Somovitz, here with Daniel Walsh, Travel Sustainable, and I’ll see you next time. See you next time.