[ 00:00:00 ]We are very, very particular about that we believe that a female team is going to make a better business. What were they thinking? The stories behind Europe’s most promising clean mobility startups. Hello, my name is Dan Sobovitz and in this podcast, I’ll be talking to some very successful startup entrepreneurs. Women and men who are disrupting mobility as we know it. They’re making it more sustainable and more inclusive, both for their passengers and for their employees. In this podcast, I won’t be asking them about their pitch decks or their growth rates or their shareholder models. I’m much more interested in what were they thinking. How did it feel to go the lonely road of an entrepreneur? Did people follow them easily or did they think they were crazy?

[ 00:00:45 ] Was it fun all along or mostly frustrating? And deep down, did they really believe they were going to make it this far? I’m also a bit sad in this episode because it’s probably the last one, at least for this season. But I am very happy to have you here. I have with me in the studio Anna Wieslander. She is COO of Elonroad from Sweden. Elonroad offers a charging infrastructure to all kinds of electrical vehicles. Hi, Anna. Hi, Dan. So tell me about your journey into Elonroad. What were you doing before? What drew you in? I was working in a big corporate setting in Sweden. I’ve been with Alfa Laval for almost 16, 17 years. And then I got onto this board education. And in that education, I had to do a board training.

[ 00:01:30 ] So I called up an old acquaintance, which I knew had started this journey with a crazy company called Elonroad. And I asked, can I come join? And she goes, yeah, come join me. So I ended up on the board of Elonroad and also coaching the production manager that she just hired. And also a woman, a young girl named Anna, who was also 25 years old and just out of Volvo. So in that journey and getting to know the company, getting to know the people and understanding what we were actually trying to do, it was impossible to say no when Karin finally asked the question, do you want to be my wingwoman? But let’s rewind a bit more, because at this point you already know about Karin, you know about the crazy startup that she has and you want to join.

[ 00:02:14 ] I know, isn’t it crazy? So what pushed you in that direction to begin with? I think, you know, when you stand on top of a really high cliff and you have that feeling in your stomach that it’s super scary. But you still have to do it. Was it scary? It was super scary. I had this fantastic career in my previous company. I’ve been working 360 throughout the organization in marketing and operations in sales, and I was somebody there, you know, they believed in me and I had a solid, good career coming on. But then this train stopped at my station or rather the electric car stopped at the electrical road and I just had to get in. Why? Though what finally pushed me over the edge was when I was thinking, how do I want to look back when I’m 70 years old?

[ 00:03:07 ] What do I want to be proud of? And I am a brave person. I want to be a rebel. So that was really, you know, then it was so easy to take that decision. Do you consider it a rebellious act to leave your job and to join the startup? In the setting I was in there, it actually was. In a big corporate setup, you have all these cushions and you’re reliant on a lot of people and you build up all the relationships. So it was really, you know, leaving a lot of friends and relationships behind. And to me, that was a brave thing to do because I really get energy out of people building teams, finding joy in the everyday work that we do. So it was scary.

[ 00:03:52 ] How mature was Elonroad at that point? At that point, they were on the verge of finalizing the innovation and moving into actually productifying. And that was also a big reason for me really, really wanting to join because I felt that I could contribute so much to that. And I could see that this was not really present in the company. Karin was doing a fantastic job on the commercial side, on the investor side. Dan, the founder and innovator, he was, you know, the father of innovation. And he really likes to create the new. But there was nobody there starting to set up some structures and getting the product to be a product, not only ending up in endless innovation. The operations. Exactly. OK, but then give us now the elevator pitch of what is it that Elonroad actually does. What did you need to operate? What Elonroad actually does is it’s putting electricity on the road, like the Skelectic car track you played with when you were a kid. So instead of having to stop and charge, we create range happiness.

[ 00:05:07 ] And also in a sustainable way with the ability of having smaller batteries because you don’t have to carry around electrons, they can be streamed into the vehicle, just like we stream music today.

[ 00:05:24 ] So instead of plugging the car in, you just drive, you broadcast the energy, you broadcast the energy into the vehicle. It sounds so good to be true. How is it even possible? It is not a new technology. Look back 100, 130 years. This was part of the industrial revolution from the start when the trams came. Actually, the electrical cars were the first ones to be deployed. Then came the combustion engine. So we have been, as a humanity, been having Category 9s for buses and for trams for a long time. What we’re doing, we’re taking the electricity down in the road. We’re putting it into an aluminum rail together with a lot of electronics and sensors and infrastructure to create a smart, safe road to drive on.

[ 00:06:20 ] So basically, the cars will be charging without even realizing it. Exactly. And the battery would be full all the time. The battery would have that level that it needs to get where it needs to go because we can steer how much energy is transmitted into the vehicle because we have a sensor from the road to the vehicle. So we know state of charge, where you’re going, how much energy you need. It’s also leveling out and balancing the grid. So that production can basically match the demand. Exactly. I’m looking at some of the notes that you wrote before we started recording. And you started, this is your first startup. You started relatively late in your career. Is it something that you recommend for other people not to embark on a startup too soon, too early?

[ 00:07:08 ] Do you think that that experience was, I mean, of course, you can generalize and every case is different. Or let’s talk about you. I mean, do you feel like in your case, this was the right order and you came when you were ready and you should not have done it earlier? I think so. If I had gotten or if the chance had appeared earlier, I probably would have taken it, but I also believe that I am better equipped now. And I think for me, it was one of the reasons why it was not an easy decision, but that I took the decision is also that what’s there to lose? I mean, I have already had a fantastic career. I know. Stability, income, security. I mean, there are a couple of things to lose.

[ 00:07:56 ] Yeah, but I also think I see a lot of my old colleagues and I’m generalizing a little bit, but, you know, you know what you have, but you don’t know what you can get is a saying, but I think you should flip that around and say, OK, I mean, there’s also some wonderful things out there that you can get if you dare to leave what you have. But it’s funny that you say that the opportunity only came at that particular moment in your career, because opportunities like this were probably always there, you were just not receptive to them. So, I mean, I’m assuming that it came to you when you were ready and looking for it and otherwise you would not have caught it.

[ 00:08:35 ] So, you think you’re going to continue changing after a few years in a startup, you’re going to try something new? After corporate and startup, what’s next? Well, nobody’s listening. Your boss is not listening, it’s just between us. Yeah, yeah. No, but I’m really, really looking forward to continuing to build this team and I think I listened to actually another podcast a couple of months ago and it was in the area of battery production because there are a couple of battery producers going down now and it was this person talking that it’s OK because we’re also building a new ecosystem, we’re building a new industry. So whatever happens, we are building competence. We’re pushing a technology forward. So for me, that also has helped in keeping sanity in this crazy tumble dryer that it is in the startup.

[ 00:09:32 ] What do you mean? Yeah, that whatever happens, I mean, of course, we are doing our very, very best to succeed, but everything is not in our hands. So if this crashes and burns, we have been part of pushing a technology forward, starting to build a new ecosystem of how infrastructure and charging will work in the future. So, everyone, including myself, will be needed in another setting in the future. But that means that we should continue evolving and learning and trying different things. Exactly. Once everybody gets on stage, the Vice President. All right. So as everybody’s making their way to the stage, thank you, jury members, evaluators. At this point, I should also mention that all the startups participating in this podcast are those who won this year’s edition of the European Startup Prize for Mobility.

[ 00:10:26 ] The prize is Europe’s largest acceleration program for clean mobility startups. The Startup Prize is a private-public initiative bringing together all major EU institutions, national authorities, philanthropies, multinational companies who jointly scout, rank, and boost Europe’s most promising clean mobility startups. This year, the prize received over 700 applications for mobility startups all across Europe. You went through a very rigorous selection process, both written and in front of the national jury. Now that you’re among the cohort of winners, the prize is connecting you with its partners for investments and deployments, presenting you to VCs and CVCs, and providing you visibility all across Europe. We’re actually recording this episode in Helsinki as part of the Winners’ Tour, which brought us to Slush. To learn more about all the startups participating and those who won this edition, visit StartupPrize.eu.

[ 00:11:20 ] And I have a confession to make. You’re my eighth episode, and you’re the second woman. What’s wrong? And before you answer, actually, the prize, given that it’s impact-driven and it’s about climate and environment, but also very much about inclusion and the main group of inclusion, and it’s even absurd we have to say women and inclusion in the same sentence because it’s not a minority, but yes, women startups that are led by women or have gender-balanced boards get extra points. So we make an crazy effort to find gender gender-balanced or women-led startups. And yet on this series, you’re almost the only one. We had Danielle Walsh from the UK, who was also a brilliant entrepreneur who spoke to me. But where are the women?

[ 00:12:06 ] That is a very good question, and I’m used to being in a very male-dominated setting. So being in a manufacturing company for almost 20 years, I have always been almost the only woman in Sweden, even in Sweden and not in the marketing and in operations all the time, in sales getting better. And I had the impression that the startup world was going to be better than that, but unfortunately, I agree with you. It’s not. But your company. I went to your booth at Slush yesterday and I was asking where the men exactly are. No. So we are very, very particular about that. We believe that a female-male team is going to make a better business. And I think we have a much more realistic view on what needs to be done.

[ 00:13:01 ] I think we are more inclusive in our leadership. We being women. Yes. So women are more inclusive and realistic. Exactly. And I think we don’t have to prove ourselves. We are we are, not in competition towards each other. And I think sometimes my observation has been also that the male role in leadership and business is actually quite narrow. And my reflection on that is that I have a little bit broader freedom as a woman, but I’m still we’re not getting rewarded as, you know, getting the VC money or the positions. So there is something skew with the picture that we’re seeing. It sounds worse than skewed. It sounds like a market failure because you’re talking to me about competences of women that are marketable and profitable.

[ 00:13:58 ] And yet how come employers don’t see that they’re still paying women less? Exactly. I wish I had a golden answer to that. Unfortunately, I don’t. But I think what we need is more role models. So one big part of my quest in my career has always been to be a really good role model. Both to my children – I have a daughter and a son – but also to younger women, because I lacked role models when I was at the start of my career. The generation above me, they had to become men to succeed in their career. Do you think women need female role models? I definitely think women need female role models. And even more, women need male role models that are inclusive.

[ 00:14:47 ] So if you have a shout out to the whole community listening, it’s to be observant of your own biases and especially in the male community, because we don’t need more female training on how we should, you know, make our pitch more aggressive or better to attract the male VCs. We need the male VCs maybe to listen in another way and be more curious and ask the questions in another way. I allow myself to quote Danielle, who said that to me on the taxi after we left the studio, because she actually regretted she didn’t say it in the studio itself. She said, when I pitch to VCs, I feel like when it’s a woman sitting there, they’re asking me, how is it not going to fail? They’re not asking it directly, but they’re basically insinuating.

[ 00:15:37 ] Tell me, you know, your failure scenario. And when there’s a man, you know, male entrepreneur, they’re asking about the success route. It’s almost like they’re predestined to see a different outcome, whether it’s a man or woman sitting there. And I can understand why this would push certain women to act in a more manly way or try to prove to the investors that, you know, don’t worry, just because I’m a woman doesn’t mean this and that. And you’re saying actually the opposite. Don’t try to pretend to be something that you’re not. Then you use your feminine skills. Exactly. But I think we are both right in that sense, because I think that what Danielle is saying is that she is getting those questions, which means we have that bias when we’re sitting across each other.

[ 00:16:17 ] But I would encourage my male colleagues and especially in the VC world to dare to examine their own biases and see why are we asking these questions in different ways, because we experience that as well, obviously. And this has been proven in several research programs when you have applications for jobs and you just change the name. If if you have a quite high tone, a little bit, I’m good at what I’m doing. And, you know, the woman is always perceived as a little bit arrogant in the writing. And the man is just perceived as assertive.

[ 00:17:00 ] To go back to your willingness to take a risk, do you think that because women earn statistically less, it’s more difficult for them? No, sorry, actually, I take it back, given that women earn statistically less, you would expect that they would be more prone to be the ones leaving the stable and taking the risk because maybe they have less to lose. In Germany, for example, where one parent gets paid by the state in order to take care of the kids, but they found out that even though they open it to men as well, in the end, it’s mostly women. And they found out that the reason was that women were making less money. So it was easier for them to lower their income.

[ 00:17:34 ] But here, when it comes to risk management, you know, you would think that the man should stay in a stable job or at least, I mean, he shouldn’t, but it could be a factor. It’s a very, very good question. And I think that at least my experience is that the differences between individuals is always bigger than the differences between gender. But if I have to generalize, I do think that women are less prone to risk than men. I don’t know if this is structural because we have raised, we are raised and are raising our kids in this setting. That might be. Or if there’s a gender, a real biological, a biological difference. For me, having a very, very equal partner has, of course, enabled me to take these steps, both the step into the startup, but also in my previous career.

[ 00:18:32 ] And I truly believe that if you have an equal relationship where both parties take full responsibility of the household, the kids, you know, the presence to the mother’s in-law, and whatnot, then you are not different in risk-taking. And is inclusion towards other groups in Elon Road as important for you as gender equality? They are. They are. And we actually have a very, very diverse team. I think we have like eight or ten nationalities already. All based in Stockholm? No, we’re based in the south of Sweden, in Lund. Sorry, Malmö. In Lund. Just outside of Malmö. I keep guessing. I’m doing my geography lesson now. Not Stockholm, not Malmö. No. In Lund. In Lund. Okay, but they’re all based there in the same location? Yeah, we’re all based.

[ 00:19:20 ] Well, we have someone working out of Stockholm, but the majority of the team is in the south of Sweden. And they’re hired locally. They didn’t travel? They traveled. So, I mean, we had engineers moving from India, from Portugal, from Turkey. So you hired them internationally and they moved to Sweden? Yes, how was that for them? They have all been, and they are very impact and value-driven. So they have found us. And sometimes we have found them, but they have really put in a stake in together with us. So we are super grateful for being able to deploy such a diverse team. But of course, we also get into finding out our own biases as we do that. For example? Well, for example, just holidays. You know, if we have multiple religions, but we’re in a Swedish setting.

[ 00:20:10 ] So what do you give holiday for? What do you don’t? And what do we say? We celebrate. And we try to celebrate all the holidays then. That sounds like fun. It is a lot of fun. That sounds like lots of holidays. Well, not maybe holidays, but a lot of celebration. There was a startup here who was telling me about their pillow fight tradition. Pillow fights for me, it’s a kind of a trust. So, yeah, one startup does pillow fights and that’s how they let their aggressions out. You just do all religions. That sounds like a great idea. Maybe I should adopt that. You should switch from world religions to pillow fights. Exactly. They almost started fighting here in the studio, so I had to kick them out. To go back to your journey.

[ 00:20:49 ] So you’re saying that now you’re recruiting people from all over the world. How many are you now? We’re 30 people at the moment. And how many were you when you just joined? I think I was number 13. Okay, so it’s tripled. So we’re almost tripled since I started. So when I came in, we had raised a seeding round. So we were able to make sure that we weren’t single sourced in the engineering company. We had a lot of competencies and now we have slowly but surely started to build up our commercial team, but still, we’re heavily into R&D and are now in the end phase of our productification. Meaning that you have a concept that’s already commercial? Exactly. So we have the electrical road where you charge as you go, is, of course, our moonshot and end goal.

[ 00:21:42 ] And we will put it on all the highways. And the world to, you know, enable everyone to enjoy this, this technology, but our step in markets are really closed areas. So there we are going commercial next year. So what kind of areas would you deploy it in? For example, harbors, where you have a confined area, you have a lot of vehicles working 24/7, you need a high operational time for your vehicle. And you also have a problem usually with the grid capacity. And if you’re putting in electrical vehicles with big batteries, you need maybe fourth of them standing still and charging while you operate the rest, which means you also get a space restriction. So, this you’re already doing it’s already operational? We have cases together with a couple of harbors.

[ 00:22:35 ] It’s not deployed yet, but we have quite far gone plans together with them. So, when is it meant to? We are waiting for decisions. We are waiting for decisions. We are waiting for decisions in the US. So, it’s going to be in the US first? In US first in the harbors, but we’re also looking at harbors in Europe. And possibly we are in some contact with the Singapore as well. So what is 2024 holding for you? 2024 for us is deploying a test track with a Japanese partner. In Japan? At their test track in Belgium, actually. In Belgium? Yes. Cool. Where in Belgium? In Mons. Okay. Yeah. Well, do keep me posted. I will. You have to come and look. I live in Brussels. Yeah, yeah. So what does it mean?

[ 00:23:18 ] So you basically you install its infrastructure basically on the road. It’s infrastructure on their test track because they are one of the biggest tier one suppliers in the world. And they are seeing that their gearboxes won’t be paying, you know, in the future. So they have also to shift and see what’s coming. So we are super happy and grateful for them partnering up with us. And they are looking at the onboard equipment. And they are looking at the onboard equipment that you need for our solution. So a Japanese company deploying in Belgium, American harbors. Yeah. Anything else for 2024? Because that sounds pretty much to me. But just to know. Yeah, we also won a tender in France this summer. So the French government is testing out our technology on the A10, two kilometers that we are deploying in 2025.

[ 00:24:09 ] Where is that? So there will be, it’s just outside of Paris. Mm-hmm. So it will be a lot of preparations for, for that project. Okay. We should have a talk about after the recording about that because the Starter Prize has a lot of French-based organizations around it that I think would be very intrigued by, by what you’re doing there. What’s the main takeaway for you from the past few years that you’ve been on this crazy, can I say, absolutely, the crazy Elan road? Absolutely. The main takeaway for me. Or advice that you would give to your clients? Or advice that you would give to somebody else who might be listening to this in a similar position? I think it’s, it’s a cliche, but I mean, you never, you only regret what you didn’t do.

[ 00:24:53 ] Uh, and back to why I made the shift. I wanted to be, you know, impress my future self, uh, but I also didn’t want to wake up every morning wondering how would it have been? And I haven’t regretted it one second. Of course. Yeah. There are, you know, days when everything is crazy and we work our asses off, but then there are also very high highs in this world. So are you impressed by yourself? I am. Yeah. Yeah. If I had told you how many years ago was it? It’s only two years. Only two years. If I had told you, you would be now telling me this story, how would you have reacted two years ago? I think I would also have been proud. Yeah. Yeah. And what about regrets?

[ 00:25:40 ] Do you have any? No. I mean, you’re not going to tell me, but, but I mean, are there any things, things that you wish you had done differently or if you had known that let’s play that game again, I’m putting you again in front of yourself two years ago, any advice you would have given yourself on how to do it differently? Um, it’s a very good question. And I don’t really believe in, you know, mistakes or regrets. Uh, what I believe in is reflection. Why did now this end up in the way I didn’t? I don’t believe in, you know, what I didn’t anticipate it to do and really take the time, you know, with your team or with yourself; could I have done anything different and if I had to do, you know, if I had another chance, what would I have done?

[ 00:26:27 ] And the answer? And the answer there is always, there’s always a learning. And I think the important thing for me is also to acknowledge both to myself and, and maybe to people that I have affected in, uh, in the mistakes or that I have, you know, in, in the, that I have experienced a mistake or in a regret to let them know that I’m not, you know, I’m not proud of this. This happened. And next time I will try to do like this or talking about the accountability. Exactly. Transparency. We’re humans, we make mistakes, we recognize them and move on. Exactly. Because the important thing for me in the team is that we dare to try because there’s, you know, we don’t get second chances in the startup world.

[ 00:27:09 ] So we have to just have our own. Are each other’s backs, and when we take steps, we’re there to catch you when you fall. But we have to get up on our feet quickly and learn from what’s happened exactly. Anything else you still want to include before we conclude? No, I think it’s been a lovely conversation, and I’m also really grateful, from behalf of Elon Road, to be part of of this ecosystem created by you being the European Starter Prize for Mobility. Thank you. I didn’t actually create it myself; I’m the Managing Director of the European Starter Prize for Mobility, which was started by Carrie Medeli, Member of the European Parliament and Chairwoman of the Transport Committee, together with Via Ide, a French accelerator, and the Boston Consulting Group. But yes, I’m very proud of the fact that now it brings together 17 as I said earlier 17 partners, which are major institutions, organizations, companies that are doing this together. And uh, yeah, each from their perspectives you recognize the need to find the most promising startups and make sure that they succeed because we all need their success.

[ 00:28:29 ] This was the last episode of ‘What Were They Thinking?’ – The stories behind Europe’s most promising clean mobility startups, brought to you by the European Starter Prize for Mobility. You can find all episodes on your favorite podcast platform. I’m Dan Sobovitz. Every time I wish you would drive in accordance with the episode that we were listening to, but this time, we drive carefully, sustainably, inclusively, responsibly. Anyway, I had a great time on this podcast, I learned a lot and I hope you did as well. Maybe see you in the next season.